thinkers vs tradesmen

Employers?

Leave them alone for a moment, think of the people themselves.

Most do not want to think for themselves and would rather do something mundane that pays the bills.

The percentage of people that actually want to think for their living is quite dismal in the grand scheme of things.

Secondly, look at who is more respected/has more resources in the society -- a "pop" star or a mathematician?

While the mathematician may be content with what s/he may have, society for the most part does not care about its "thinkers".

If we did, there would be far more folks out there doing things like pure mathematics, theoretical physics and other abstract areas that genuinely require thinking (not to discount the thinking in engineering and applied sciences, but pure sciences generally require more of a deidication than applied sciences and engineering).

So while engineering schools may be geared towards thinking, the question boils down to how many jobs out there require you to think as opposed to obey? How many people out there like people that think rather than do as they are told (while doing as you are told is certainly an important part of your learning experience, how many folks here have felt that they could find a better solution than the ones they have been asked to implement?).

No, if you want thinkers you need a society that encourages thinking.

promotion or not ?

Liquid is right. Maybe some of us are less concerned about "advancing" than having time with our families and a high quality of life.

I can't exactly put my finger on the day and time I decided I didn't need to "move up" any more, but let me tell you, it was a liberating moment.

The funniest part of it is that immediately after the first time I turned down a "promotion" because I felt satisfied with my life as it was, coincided directly with the really good opportunities showing up. It almost seems like happiness and satisfaction are qualities that draw success. Instead of running after success, if you reach a point where you're not quite so hungry, so desperate, success starts coming after you, instead.

I've seen what ambitious, driven people look like. Take someone like Dick Cheney for example. Here's a guy who clawed his way to the top, literally. He's worked his way to a level of wealth and power most people only dream of, and his face is like a road-map of pain and desperation. I wouldn't want to be inside his head on the day he shuffles off this earth.

freeeeeeeedom!!!

If you are young, healthy, single, and debt-free, you dont need to be a millionaire to pursue your dream. Ramen noodles, a backpack, and a good attitude is all you need. I don't understand why people think they need to "pay their dues" before doing what they really want to do in life.

You live only once. You are young only once. So, you should do whatever it is you really want to do.

This, of course, is why it is so important to live frugaly and avoid debt -- it can rob you of your freedom. There's nothing worse than some student debt with a side dish of some credit cards, a long-term cell phone contract, and a car lease.


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Sheesh. If they're poor, what am I? I make just under 28,000/yr (USD). My TV is a 25" and over about 6-8 years old. Oh, and my wife and I have 2 kids.

Money doesn't make you rich, perceived lack thereof makes you poor. I know many people with far more money than I that complain about money far more than I. If you can afford to put food on the table, a roof over your head and not live in fear for your life, health or well-being, it is hard to justify a claim of 'poor'.

No, I'm not the guy who sold his house and cars to live poor on purpose, we're just a young family starting out. A big problem, especially here in the States, seems to be that if you are not able to consume everything your heart desires that you are poor and living without. If that describes you, I strongly suggest you spend some time determining what really makes you happy and focus on that.

Sorry for the rant, but those of us that live a bit below the 'living wage' (here in Utah I'd have to make a few thousand more a year to be at it) are tired of hearing about how people that make a multiple of what we do are 'poor.'

:)

Linux development for ipod ?

I'm a developer. I develop for Linux (actually for the GNU/Linux environment; I'm not a kernel developer) because I value programming freedom. I don't care a rat's ass for "market share". Why would I? I get the same amount of money, $0.00, for my apps whether they're used by one person or 10 million people.

The phrase "the iPod generation" means to me a bunch of kids who are pure consumers. They produce nothing I want. I despise their sheep-like following of fashion, I despise their inability to think for themselves, and I despise their taste in music. To consider giving up any part of my programming freedom to please these people is absurd.

flip burgers

Sounds like you've bought into the factory/robot mentality.

Working in a factory or in telephone support is different from working in a job which requires thinking, creativity, and problem-solving. People can't invent new solutions for things for 8 hours straight, with only a rigidly-timed lunch break. Our brains don't work like that.

Sure, if your job is flipping burgers and refilling soft drinks, it doesn't take much brain power to do that, and there's no reason to be goofing off on the job. Just turn your brain off and follow the routine, day in and day out. But if you're trying to devise creative solutions to complex problems, this simply isn't going to happen according to a rigid plan, timed to the minute.

Math Vs Science

You can prove things in math. Math isn't science. Math is a special construct where you make a few assumptions and then spend eternity figuring out what the consequences of those assumptions are. Thus, when you prove something in math you're really saying that X is always true assuming your axioms.

In science you don't get to make up the axioms. The universe does and we get to try to figure out what they are.